WR

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: :: :: - WHAT'S RATTLIN' ? - :: :: The Weekly (or so) Digest for Canterbury Music Addicts :: :: Issue # 162 :: :: Saturday, August 26th, 2000 :: :: :: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: richard-d@webtv.net (R D) Subject: Kevin Ayers gigs Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Hi, Kevin Ayers is doing two shows in California, both opening for Gong - 9/8 in Hollywood, 9/9 in San Francisco. [details in gigs section at the end of this newsletter] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LOLOREC@aol.com Subject: Project Lo and Gongzilla shows Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:55:15 EDT Hello, Here are some upcoming dates for Project Lo and look forward to an American tour for GONGZILLA in Dec. thanks, Bon Lozaga PROJECT LO featuring Bon Lozaga, Hansford Rowe, Vic Stevens and special guest Happy Rhodes will be performing several shows in October. The following are confirmed dates. Oct. 4 Brass City Records 489 Meadow St., Waterbury, CT 203-574-7805 8pm show Oct. 5 The Knitting Factory 74 Leonard St., NYC 212-219-3006 2 shows 8 & 10 pm Oct. 6 The Tin Angel 20 S. Second Street, Philadelphia, PA 215- 928- 0770 8pm show Oct. 8 Metro Café 1522 14th St. NW, Washington DC 202-588-9118 9pm show LoLo Records http://www.lolorecords.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: two folk's questions Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:49:48 EDT [In WR#161, Nick Nelson wrote:] >On a related note, does any label have any plans for a Soft Machine box>set of the first few albums? Say, through Seven or even Softs? I've been>holding off replacing my scratchy LPs figuring something like this was sure>to come, but I haven't seen anything. If not, can people lead me to >existing CDs that are well-mastered? I don't think anything like this is coming down the pike. In terms of good sound?I think that the 1st two Softs albums sound as good as they are ever likely to sound; I am virtually certain that the multi-track tapes are most likely lost, so everyone who issues/reissues these are all starting with the same 30 year+ old stereo mix-down tapes. And the recordings ain't so hot to begin with, of course. re: "Third". "Ain't so hot to begin with" very accurately describes the recordings on this album. I don't know if Sony still has the multi-track tapes, but all issues so far have obviously been taken from the original album stereo masters. I suppose that they could be remixed from the original multi [8 tracks?] track tapes, but that would require a lot of money, access to the tapes [assuming that they still exist] & probably more effort than I see Sony [or anyone else, really] putting into something like this. "4" and "5" have been very well represented on CD on the latest mid-line 2-on-1 issue from Sony in Germany. The sound is very clear & distinct, imo, & not much could be done to further improve it. For the albums beyond that, I have no comment. [In WR#161, David Voci wrote:] >Well, yes, a good topic the Henry Cow 5 or 10 CD set!!>If someone can muster up a 5CD set of Faust...then a Henry Cow 5 or>10 CD set can't be all that difficult to conjure up mentally. >I truly believe that with time permitting, a wonderful box set can be>assembled without much effort at all... Isn't HC's main platform>improvising and if that is true, then what is so hard to fathom>about putting together a set that is pretty much all improv? No>need for a lot of studio trickery and the beautiful thing about>Henry Cow is the rawness of their sound and the very randomness >of it as well. >Then again, maybe die hard fans only would buy this (I seriously>doubt that 1000-2000 copies wouldn't sell out), but to compare>this idea with an artist who did just this, Klaus Schulze, makes>the idea a little more appealing and feasible, at least in my >twisted mind. Bottom line: Faust & Klaus Schulze & Ash Ra Tempel & everyone else you've mentioned WANTED it to happen, and compiled these multi-sets, or allowed someone else to compile these sets. Until the ex-members of Henry Cow *want* it to happen & someone works towards that end, it won't happen. The moment they *do* want it to happen, it is, of course, totally possible and even likely. The point I am trying to make is that there is nothing impractical about your wants; but merely that the people who control the H.Cow archives [H. Cow themselves] are simply not as excited about this idea as you are! :-) <signed> back from holiday, & not particularly happy about it! Steve F.[who is slaving away day & nite in order to get the National Health "Playtime" CD finished in time for the January release date] :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Carlton" <peter.carlton@monopoly.dircon.co.uk> Subject: Canterbury Sound Festival Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:50:26 +0100 Just to let you know that I am at last working on the Caravan video which was first mooted 21/2 years ago. Anyone who was at the Canterbury Festival will have seen my four cameras covering the music and the general scene, but the main aim of their presence was to cover the Caravan set. In fact I am producing two videos - one about Caravan, which will include archive material, rehearsal footage, interviews with all the current band members except Simon the percussionist (who wasn't at the rehearsal the day we were filming) and their set from Mount Ephraim; the other video will be a two-hour compilation of the sets from the five main bands at the Festival: in order of performance, Man, Arthur Brown, Coliseum, Gong and Caravan. The Caravan video will be ready (I hope) in time for their tour in early October and will cost £15 plus £2.50 post and packing in the UK, £4.50 in Europe. I will do a SECAM version for France, which will be ready in time for the Paris gig on 25th November. Kind regards. p Peter Carlton peter.carlton@monopoly-tv.com +44 1795 532 078 (T) +44 1795 591 530 (F) +44 7711 044 945 (M) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Kipling" <David_Kipling@bcit.ca> Subject: Westbrook Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:56:39 -0700 Dear Jazzers: Is there yet a CD reissue of the Mike Westbrook Marching Band's METROPOLIS album? David Kipling BC, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Lawrence <badmuddy@yahoo.com> Subject: Zu Band Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Hey! I'd like to subscribe. Also, I wish people would get the facts straight once and for all. I was the guitar player for the ZU/New York Gong conglomeration. A friend of mine, artist Dorian Lapadura, brought me by Gomelsky's "palace" one day to introduce me to his friend Michael Beinhorn, there was a Telecaster belonging to a sick Cliff Cultreri who didn't make it for rehearsal that day, sitting on a chair, and the guys (Laswell, B-horn, etc) asked me toplay. They were bowled over by my playing, and I was asked to replace Cliff on the spot. The rest is history. Being a huge Gong fan, I actually taught the guys to play the material correctly (we were all pretty green in those days!). I performed with Gong on the night alongside Chris Cutler & Fred Frith. As mentioned on Dave Stewart's site, I also performed with national health at the Squat Theater that hot, sweaty night. I've had a band on Island Records (world at a glance) with ex-Iggy Pop/Lounge Lizards drummer Dougie Bowne, toured opening up for Joe Satriani, been in bands with Joe Bowie (Defunkt), Melvyn Gibbs (Henry Rollins/Arto Lindsay), Eric Sanko (Skeleton Key/Lounge Lizards), Percy Jones (Brand X), been in the NYC underground scene since the late 70's. Please, for once, get the facts straight. I don't ask for much, I'm just getting tired of seeing other people getting credit for things I've done. thanx, Michael Lawrence ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Voci" <david_voci@tcibr.com> Subject: Wild Turkey/Soft Machine Date: 23 Aug 00 12:20:31 -0700 [In WR#161, Peter observed:]>when I happened upon "Stealer of Years" by a re-formed Wild>Turkey... Though this may not exactly be considered Canterbury, I>have the utmost respect for Glen Cornick (formerly of Tull)...>I will say, as I listen to this collection, that I am extremely>impressed... so if any of you are looking for something good, >that you haven't heard... check it out.. .I love it... Nice band this, I can only reminisce and say that I once owned both American vinyls, Turkey and Battle Hymn from the early seventies and sold them off, getting only the latter on CD(Edsel/UK)which is well worth the purchase price. This band deserves mention here I would agree. Their first lp didn't get me too worked up though. and then Nick:>On a related note, does any label have any plans for a Soft Machine>box set of the first few albums? Say, through Seven or even Softs? Only know of the first two on a twofer CD and I believe the recent pairing of 4 and 5 as a twofer. These single cd's are typically between 10 and 13 dollars US dollars. I doubt that 1-7 will ever make it out as a box but one never knows. Different copyright ownership and stuff. Maybe 3-7 as a remote chance. Columbia/Sony might still have the rights for these five. I picked up volumes 1 and 2 on a single CD used as I already had the One Way versions but bought the twofer as there was an additional pic and liner note not in the One Way releases. And having these two groundbreaking releases played as one piece when listening, without a pause to change cd's, is pretty cool too. For recording quality, most of the One Way, CBS, See For Miles items are fine by my standards. Voiceprint is sometimes questionable but Cuneiform cd's are pretty clean. See Calyx Discography for full list. [Roger Bunn, ex-Piblokto bassist, wrote:]>"An interview with PETE BROWN - An in depth interview conducted>on Leap Years extra day, the 29th of February 2000. With Pete >Brown, lyricist for the Cream... Also producer of Peter Green's recent Splinter Group album, Destiny Road... And yes, no need to watch the olympics again this when?? Lastly, I pledge to CC not bring the idea of the HC box set up anymore after this public apology for overkilling this theme. By the way, I really enjoy the Science Group CD(Fred Frith is on it) you put out recently... Great musicianry on this piece and highly recommended for readers of this digest. A reader had made nice mention of this a few issues back. Stay well, dv ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Carlton" <peter.carlton@monopoly.dircon.co.uk> Subject: The Foundry Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:55:48 +0100 Re "Distant Appreciation" I think the arts centre/club Tony Shaw is referring to is the Foundry, which was in Beer Cart Lane and served as a hidey-hole for many of us in those days - it was also on the rounds of the Drugs Squad, who made themselves very obvious at that time. I remember Spag Bol being on the menu at 3/6 (171/2p!). There were booths and the tables were old sewing-machine tables with treadles underneath. The Foundry and the Beehive (in Dover Street) were the only places for "heads" to hang out apart from pubs like the Seven Stars, the Olive Branch and the Shakespeare. Peter Carlton PS: I once saw Hawkwind perform at the Beehive to about 60 people sitting on the floor (there was no more room) - "Silver Machine" and all. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** FORTHCOMING CANTERBURY-RELATED CONCERTS ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * [for more info : check out the 'Concerts' page of CALYX] http://perso.club-internet.fr/calyx/index/concerts.html ==> KEVIN AYERS <======================================================== Sep 08 - LOS ANGELES (CA), Knitting Factory / Sep 09 - SAN FRANCISCO (CA), Great American Music Hall Kevin will open for Gong on both dates. ==> CARAVAN <=========================================================== Oct 11 - LONDON, Shepherd's Bush Empire / Oct 12 - WOLVERHAMPTON, Wulfrun Hall / Oct 13 - MANCHESTER, University (The Main Debating Hall) / Oct 14 - GLASGOW, Renfrew Ferry / Oct 15 - CAMBRIDGE, Junction / Nov 17 - Chiddingfold Club / Nov 25 - PARIS (France), Le Bataclan Line-up: Pye Hastings, Geoff Richardson, David Sinclair, Richard Coughlan, Doug Boyle, Jim Leverton, Simon Bentall ==> GONG <============================================================== AMERICA: Sep 08 - LOS ANGELES (CA), Knitting Factory / Sep 09 - SAN FRANCISCO (CA), Great American Music Hall / Sep 11 - EUGENE (OR), Wow Hall / Sep 12 - PORTLAND (OR), Satyricon / Sep 15 - DENVER (CO), Soiled Dove / Sep 16 - LAWRENCE (KS), Bottleneck / Sep 18 - CHICAGO (IL), House of Blues / Sep 19 - MILWAUKEE (WI), Shank Hall / Sep 20 - MINNEAPOLIS (MN), First Avenue / Sep 23 - HUNTINGTON (WV), Buffalo Gap Community Camp / Sep 24 - COLUMBUS (OH), Thirsty Ear / Sep 26 - CLEVELAND (OH), Odeon / Sep 30 - NEW YORK (NY), Knitting Factory / Oct 01 - PHILADELPHIA (PA), Trocadero Theater / Oct 02 - BOSTON (MA), House Of Blues / Oct 07 - ANN ARBOR (MI), The Firefly Club EUROPE: Oct 17 - VERVIERS (Belgium), Spirit of 66 / Oct 18 - MODENA (Italy), Vox / Oct 19 - ROME (Italy), Palacisalfa / Oct 20 - TREVISO (Italy), New Age / Oct 21 - RIMINI (Italy), Velvet / Oct 22 - FLORENCE (Italy), Tenax / Oct 24 - VIENNA (Austria), Szene / Oct 26 - LINZ (Austria), Posthof / Oct 27 - WINTERTHUR (Switzerland) [nr Zurich], Gaswerk / Oct 28-Nov 03 - FRANCE (details tba) / Nov 04 - ATHENS (Greece), Radon Club / Nov 05 - SALONIKA (Greece), Mylos Nov 20 - LONDON, Hackney Empire / Nov 22 - SHREWSBURY, Music Hall / Nov 23 - WHITLEY BAY, Dome / Nov 24 - ABERDEEN, Lemon Tree / Nov 25 - GLASGOW, Renfrew Ferry / Nov 26 - EDINBURGH, Liquid Rooms / Nov 27 - BIRMINGHAM, The Foundry / Nov 28 - SHEFFIELD, Boardwalk / Nov 29 - CAMBRIDGE, Junction / Nov 30 - NORTHAMPTON, Roadmenders / Dec 01 - ALDERSHOT, West End Centre Line-up: Daevid Allen, Gilli Smyth, Mike Howlett, Theo Travis, Gwyo Zeprix, Chris Taylor + Didier Malherbe [on selected dates] ==> HUGH HOPPER BAND <=================================================== Sep 19 - ROTTERDAM (Netherlands), Dizzy / Sep 22 - BREDA (Netherlands), Heijgend Hert / Sep 23 - AMSTERDAM (Netherlands), Bimhuis Line-up: Hugh Hopper (bass), Frank v/d Kooij (sax), Robert Jarvis (trombone), Oscar Schultze (drums) ==> MAGICK BROTHERS <==================================================== Aug 26 - FESTIVAL EN STOCK (France), Les Amis de l'Epouvantail [nr Le Puy] [info: 04.71.08.91.51] / Aug 29 - CHADRON [nr Le Puy] (France), Foyer des Amis [info: 04.71.08.91.51] / Aug 30 - HERRENWAES [nr Baden Baden] (Germany), Turning Point Kultur Forum [info: 0722 6406] Line-up: Daevid Allen, Graham Clark & Mark Robson ==> DIDIER MALHERBE <==================================================== Oct 05-15 - NANCY (France), Festival Jazz Pulsations Featuring Didier's new trio with Patrice Meyer & Philippe Foch More info: http://www.multimania.com/malherbedidier/ ==> PIERRE MOERLEN'S GONG <============================================== Oct 19 - ZOETERMEER (Netherlands), De Boerderij / Nov 03 - VERVIERS (Belgium), Spirit Of 66 ========================================================================= * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** AND OTHER GOOD GIGS... ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ==> BILL BRUFORD'S EARTHWORKS <========================================== Sep 01 - READING, Jazz Club / Sep 08 - BIRKENHEAD (Wirral), Jazz Festival / Oct 05 - POOLE, Arts Centre / Oct 10 - BIRMINGHAM, Midlands Art Centre / Oct 15 - STIRLING, Cowan Theatre / Oct 16 - ABERDEEN, Lemon Tree / Oct 19 - ARNOLD [nr Nottingham], Leisure Centre/Bonington Theatre / Oct 20 - WAKEFIELD, Sports Club / Dec 09 - St.ALBANS, Red Note ==> CAMEL <============================================================== Aug 26 & 27 - SAN FRANCISCO (CA), Great American Music Hall / Aug 29 - LOS ANGELES (CA), The Troubadour / Aug 30 - SAN DIEGO (CA), The Belly Up Sep 04 - OSAKA (Japan), Heat Beat / Sep 05 - NAGOYA (Japan), Bottom Line / Sep 06 & 07 - TOKYO (Japan), Blitz / Sep 08 - TOKYO (Japan), Shibuya Deseo Sep 11 - HAMBURG (Germany), Fabrik / Sep 13 - BYDGOSZCZ (Poland), Hala Astoria / Sep 14 - WARSAW (Poland), Sala Kongresowa / Sep 15 - KRAKOW (Poland), Wista Sport Hall / Sep 16 - ZABRZE (Poland), Dom Muzyki i Tanca / Sep 18 - TURIN (Italy), Hiroshima / Sep 19 - CLERMONT-FERRAND (France), Cooperative de Mai / Sep 21 - MADRID (Spain), La Riviera / Sep 22 - BARCELONA (Spain), The Bikini / Sep 24 - VERVIERS (Belgium), Spirit of 66 / Sep 25 - GRONINGEN (Netherlands), Oosterpoort / Sep 26 - AMSTERDAM (Netherlands), Paradiso / Sep 27 - TILBURG (Netherlands), 013 / Sep 28 - ROTTERDAM (Netherlands), Nighttown / Sep 29 - UTRECHT (Netherlands), Tivoli / Sep 30 - PARIS (France), Le Bataclan / Oct 02 - DUDLEY, JB's / Oct 03 - LEICESTER, Charlotte / Oct 04 - CAMBRIDGE, Junction / Oct 05 - NORWICH, Waterfront / Oct 06 - LONDON, Astoria / Oct 07 - LIVERPOOL, Lomax / Oct 08 - SHEFFIELD, Leadmill / Oct 09 - GLASGOW, Garage / Oct 10 - DUBLIN, Whelans / Oct 13 - SALONIKA (Greece), Mylos Club / Oct 14 - ATHENS (Greece), Rodon Club Updates at http://www.camelproductions.com Line-up: Andrew Latimer, Colin Bass, Guy LeBlanc [Nathan Mahl], Clive Bunker [ex-Jethro Tull/Steve Hillage] ==> CHRIS CUTLER <======================================================= with Caroline Kraabel, John Wall and Peter Cusak:Aug 27 - ROTHERHITHE [nr London], Kunstbrucke (Dilston Grove) solo:Aug 27 - ROTHERHITHE [nr London], Kunstbrucke (Dilston Grove) / Oct 06 - BUDAPEST (Hungary), Big Ear Festival with PA.LINCK.XL:Oct 19 - AMSTERDAM (Netherlands), Bimhuis / Oct 23 - EINDHOVEN (Netherlands), Festival More info: http://www.ccutler.com ==> JOHN ETHERIDGE <===================================================== Sep 01 - BOXFORD (Suffolk), The Fleece (with Lianne Carrol) / Sep 09 - LONDON [Stoke Newington], Vortex Jazz Bar (with John Marshall & Dudley Phillips) / Sep 16 - BERKHAMPSTEAD, Civic Hall (Sweet Chorus) / Sep 17 - LEICESTER, Phoenix Art Centre (Sweet Chorus) / Sep 30 - MILTON (Hampshire), Forest Art Centre (Sweet Chorus) More info: http://www.johnetheridge.f9.co.uk ==> FAUST <============================================================== Oct 25 - LONDON, Royal Festival Hall [020 7960 4242] / Oct 26 - COLCHESTER, Arts Centre [01206 500900] / Oct 28 - MANCHESTER, University Main Debating Hall [0161-832 1111] / Oct 29 - NEWCASTLE, Whitley Bay Dome [0191-454 4494] / Oct 30 - GLASGOW, Old Fruitmarket [0141-287 5511] / Oct 31 - LEEDS, Irish Centre [0113 245 5570] ==> PROJECT LO <========================================================= Oct 04 - WATERBURY (CT), Brass City Records / Oct 05 - NEW YORK CITY (NY), Knitting Factory [two shows, 8/10pm] / Oct 06 - PHILADELPHIA (PA), Tin Angel / Oct 08 - WASHINGTON DC, Metro Café Line-up: Bon Lozaga, Hansford Rowe, Vic Stevens, Happy Rhodes ==> MAGMA <============================================================== Sep 20 - LONDON, Royal Festival Hall / Sep 21 - NEWCASTLE, Whitley Bay Dome / Sep 22 - GLASGOW, The Old Fruitmarket / Sep 28 - FRANKFURT (Germany) [tbc] / Oct 27 - LA ROCHE s/YON (France) / Oct 28 - LE MANS (France) / Nov 04 or 05 - AMSTERDAM (Netherlands) [tbc] / Nov 17 - LYON (France) / Nov 18 - MARSEILLE (France) / Nov 23 - MULHOUSE (France) / Nov 24 - NANCY (France) / Nov 25 - VITRY-LE-FRANCOIS (France) ==> MUJICIAN <=========================================================== Aug 26 - MULHOUSE (France), Festival of Jazz & New Music Line-up: Keith Tippett, Paul Dunmall, Paul Rogers, Tony Levin ==> PORCUPINE TREE <===================================================== Oct 02 - LILLE (France), Aeronef / Oct 04 - COLOMBES [nr.Paris] (France), Salle de Spectacles de la Ville / Oct 05 - CLERMONT-FERRAND (France), Cooperative de Mai / Oct 06 - MULHOUSE (France), Le Phoenix / Oct 07 - STUTTGART, Filderstadt Filharmonie / Oct 09 - BYDGOSZCZ (Poland), Astoria Hall / Oct 10 - KRAKOW (Poland), Wisla Hall / Oct 11 - PRAGUE (Czech Republic), Brumlovka Sky Club / Oct 13 - TRIER (Germany), Messeparkhalle / Oct 14 - DEN BOSCH (Netherlands), Maaspoort / Oct 16 - BRISTOL, Colston Hall / Oct 17 - LEEDS, Town & Country Club / Oct 18 - GLASGOW, Barrowlands / Oct 19 - MANCHESTER, University/"Hop & Grape" / Oct 20 - NORWICH, University of East Anglia / Oct 21 - LONDON, Hammersmith Labatts Apollo All these dates are in support of Dream Theater except Oct 19 ==> PRESENT <============================================================ Sep 30 - WURZBURG (Germany), AKW / Oct 19 - POITIERS (France), Confort Moderne / Nov 01 - ANVERS (Belgium), Monty+ dates to be fixed: KLAGENFURT (Austria), Verein Innenhofkultur / TRIESTE (Italy), Teatro Miela Reina / SZCZECIN (Poland), Kana Theater Line-up: Roger Trigaux, Reginald Trigaux, Pierre Chevalier, Keith Macksoud, David Kerman ==> SUPERSISTER <======================================================== Sep 01 - SAN FRANCISCO (CA), Progfest Line-up: Robert Jan Stips (keyboards/vocals), Ron van Eck (bass), Sacha van Geest (flute/vocals), Marco Vrolijk (drums) More info: http://www.pingnet.ch/stips ==> ZORCH <============================================================== Aug 26 - BRISTOL, The Depot Lawrence Hill (Tribe of Frog Trance Party) 10pm - 5am (£7 before 11pm/£10 after) More info: http://www.zorchmusic.com ================================================================================================================================================== END OF ISSUE 162_________________________________________________________________________ WHAT'S RATTLIN' ? - WHAT'S RATTLIN' ? - WHAT'S RATTLIN' ?_________________________________________________________________________ CALYX - The Canterbury Website http://perso.club-internet.fr/calyx THE ULTIMATE ONLINE CANTERBURY DISCOGRAPHY http://perso.club-internet.fr/calyx/cantdisco WHAT'S RATTLIN' ? BACK ISSUES - ONLINE ARCHIVE http://musart.co.uk/watrat/watrat.htm + search engine : http://musart.co.uk/ssearch.htm * To subscribe, send me an e-mail with 'WR sub' in the subject line.* To send a message for inclusion in the next issue, send it with 'WR: [subject]' in the subject line.* If your e-mail address changes, please notify me and mention both your old and new addresses so I can remove the former and add the latter.* If you can no longer receive WR or don't want to anymore, don't forget to unsubscribe! (i.e. send me a message)* All contributions are welcome! Please write to: CALYX@club-internet.fr_________________________________________________________________________